Windows 10: EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....

Discus and support EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting.... in Windows 10 Support to solve the problem; I do not understand you concern for the License key kept in the UEFI firmware. That key is for your OEM installed OS. Windows 10 does not use a License... Discussion in 'Windows 10 Support' started by Tabvla, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Mystere Win User

    EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....


    We haven't seen the final EULA, so it's misleading to say something is in the EULA when nobody has seen it.

    What's more, the previous Upgrade EULA's do not say that either. They do say that you can't use the previous version and the new version at the same time. They are a single license. It's no different than trying to run the same copy of Windows 7/8 on two computers. It does not say you aren't allowed to use the old version of the OS if you're not using the new version.

    Where are you getting this thing about a 30 day rollback? Nowhere has it said that, and only one person who claimed they heard it from an OEM has said it, hardly a valid source.
     
    Mystere, Jun 26, 2015
    #16
  2. Mystere Win User

    Seriously? You're asking a question about a hypothetical function that doesn't exist?
     
    Mystere, Jun 26, 2015
    #17
  3. Tabvla Win User
    Normally I would agree with you.... however, in this case the OEM is one of the biggest and most respected and they have assured me that this has come directly from Microsoft in response to the question that I asked them.

    Therefore I am of the opinion that in this case this is a "valid source".

    Then again perhaps not..... Gabe Aul seems to have to say what he means several times before we actually understand what he means and then perhaps only he understands what he means and we must infer what we think he means..... anyone else get a headache when trying to decipher Gabe's messages.....?

    T.
     
    Tabvla, Jul 1, 2015
    #18
  4. Saltgrass Win User

    EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....

    Aren't you saying you cannot use the old version while using the new version? No one said you cannot use the old version if you discontinue use of the new version. There has always been confusion as to whether Microsoft will invalidate your old license key, making the old version forever unusable, but as far as I know that has never been the case.


    The 30 day rollback limitation is a Windows option. I have read somewhere the rollback option will only be available for thirty days. After that you will not be able to roll back. Microsoft has in the past removed the hidden folders which would contain the old install.

    This is in the BCD store.

     
    Saltgrass, Jul 1, 2015
    #19
  5. Tabvla Win User
    As important as the EULA is, the really critical part of this question was related to the UEFI and the imbedding of the Product Key into the UEFI by the OEM.

    The UEFI specification does not accommodate for an imbedded Windows Product Key to be associated with multiple Windows OS's.

    I am still of the opinion that this issue has not be been properly thought through by Microsoft in terms of the W10 upgrade. If my opinion is incorrect then I would appreciate proof from Microsoft and I will then issue an unreserved apology.

    For information - the OEM is still pursuing Microsoft to provide clarity on this issue. As of this writing the Redmond waters are still looking decidedly muddy.

    T.
     
    Tabvla, Jul 1, 2015
    #20
  6. Saltgrass Win User
    When you install an OS, it looks for a License key in 3 places, or at least it did.

    The first is embedded in the UEFI bios, the second a file on the install media and the third a manual entry.

    Since Windows 10 will not be able to use a Window 8.1 License key, it will not use the one from the Bios, but just look to see if the OS in legally activated.

    If you want to go back and reinstall Windows 8.1, it will still check the UEFI bios and find its key.

    The Windows 10 activation process is going to be handled differently from prior OSes. You should not have a problem going back to 8.1 using your embedded key.
     
    Saltgrass, Jul 1, 2015
    #21
  7. Tabvla Win User
    Saltgrass, I and a few million others hope that your optimism is correct.

    At least one major OEM does not share your view..... they are still trying to get a definitive answer from MS.

    I will have a bottle of bubbly handy and will toast your good health if you are correct...... I will also have a very large box of tissues and a jar of Java's finest black beans just in case the OEM's fears are correct...

    T.
     
    Tabvla, Jul 9, 2015
    #22
  8. lx07 Win User

    EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....

    In Windows 7 to 8 upgrades the Windows.old directory was automatically deleted after 4 weeks by cleanmgr.exe

    Windows 8 drivers, Windows.Old files |
    Missing Windows.old folder after upgrade

    If this is the same in Windows 10 (and no-one knows) then your automatic ability to revert would be lost as the windows.old directory wouldn't exist anymore on your C: drive. This is nothing to do with licenses and nothing to do with OEM software - it is only the Windows.old directory is deleted by the OS after a month (in windows 8).

    Best to make a backup IMO. Just before and just after upgrading would be best if you have space.
     
  9. jimbo45 Win User
    Hi there

    As you point out you CAN ALWAYS REVERT. to previous system.

    Before making any changes / updates MAKE A BACKUP IMAGE. !!!!

    I really don't understand how even after so long how so many people just don't understand this --so many people think that after an update you are STUCK with that OS. You can always RESTORE a backed up image of a previous version.

    There are so many FREE decent programs around that it to me is inconceiveable that people don't take backups.

    If it were me I'd not allow anybody to touch a computer until they understood how to make a backup and the first taks after initial boot up should be to take a backup. !!!!

    Cheers
    jimbo
     
    jimbo45, Jul 9, 2015
    #24
  10. I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 via the insiders page. Checking my key with showkey, shows a new key that is not the original Windows 7 key or the key listed by Microsoft for that build. That key stayed the same up until build 10130. Showkey showed it as a Windows 8.1 preview key. After upgrading to build 10162 showkey showed yet another new key. It may have happened with build 10158 or 10159, I didn't check it until 10162. This key shows as a Windows 10 Pre-Release key. Windows 10 is not using my previous Windows 7 key. It has its own Windows 10 key. It has been reported that clean installs will be doable after you do the free upgrade. How is one to do a clean install if one doesn't have a product code to enter? Also keep in mind that OEM Windows 7 PC's do not have a product code embedded in the BIOS like OEM Windows 8 PC's do. If you wipe your OEM Windows 7 install, your going to need the product code on the COA sticker to do a reinstall. That or custom branded OEM install media.
     
    alphanumeric, Jul 9, 2015
    #25
  11. Tabvla Win User
    I don't think that the concerns are with regards to Backups or System Images - even non-technical users are often comfortable with creating these. The specific concerns raised in this Thread and with which at least one major OEM agrees, are the concerns around the Product Key imbedded in systems with the UEFI firmware interface.

    Microsoft has provided absolutely NO clarity as to how the W10 upgrade will impact (or not) on imbedded Product Keys. I know that this statement is correct because one of the worlds largest OEM vendors has been unable, up until today, to obtain a clear statement from MS as to how this will work.

    Currently that OEM does not have in place a clear set of instructions with their Support Consultants as to how to advise customers who experience a problem with the imbedded Product Key should the upgrade go wrong or should the customer wish to revert to their previous OS using either the Windows.old file or a System Image that the customer created.

    Perhaps the entire question around the W10 upgrade and imbedded Product Keys is "not a problem". But if that is the case then it would be helpful if MS provided OEM vendors with a clear and unambiguous directive as to how their Support Consultants should provide support in those cases where it is a problem. That directive has not as yet been provided.

    T.
     
    Tabvla, Jul 9, 2015
    #26
  12. Mystere Win User
    I wasn't aware of that. If so, you can simply disable or delete the scheduled task that does this, and it will be around for as long as you want.
     
    Mystere, Jul 9, 2015
    #27
  13. EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....

    Of course some of the reasons Microsoft are keeping tight lipped about how this is all going to work is possible secrecy to prevent unscrupulous "users" AKA Pirates hacking or circumventing this and creating a valid install where non exist. I am sure if anyone gets an issue Microsoft can look at the telementary and the codes you submit to ensure your install is valid and should be activated. You may just have to phone up and put up with Windows is not activated messages. You have to understand Microsoft have a duty to prevent piracy and at the same time protect valid users who for no fault of their own the upgrade goes wrong. Could be bad sectors on the hard drive, the alignment of the planets and which way the wind blows or even viruses and malware.
    So if you get an issue with Windows 10 after the free upgrade call Microsoft, they will help you or at least point you in the right direction. Windows 10 is very important to them and the last thing they need are cheesed off customers. Bad news travels twice as fast and 10 times further than good news. Me I am sticking to Windows 7 Ultimate mostly but will side grade my Laptop and a couple of desktops to 10 dual booting with 7.
     
    Indianatone, Jul 9, 2015
    #28
  14. AlanWade Win User
    I Think all the to and fro-ing will come to an end in just under Three weeks, we all will or should know more then.
     
    AlanWade, Jul 9, 2015
    #29
  15. *Ditto and *Ditto to the last two posts above.
     
    alphanumeric, Jul 9, 2015
    #30
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EULA; UEFI; Product Keys and reverting....

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