Windows 10: How Microsoft's data case could unravel the US tech industry

Ehhhh, I don't think Microsoft has an argument here. They're a US company, a person of US nationality is in question, Microsoft's servers even in Ireland is still property of Microsoft and therefore subject to US laws.

But I can see the other side for Microsoft, they're a global company. A server in Ireland stores all sorts of data everywhere just as a server here in the US could possibly store data based in Ireland. Because they're a global company, the nodes of which they operate throughout the globe are subject to local laws.

The only way I can see Microsoft gaining the upper hand is if the EU intervenes. If that happens, oh boy.

This will be an interesting case to see what happens. The line that caught my attention was that the DOJ basically states that they'd rather go through Microsoft for the data than the government of Ireland because it's would be "slow and cumbersome." Part of me thinks that the US government is being the US government imposing their will through whatever means they see fit, i.e. cutting corners and saying it's justified even though quite questionable in the eyes of the law.

Actually, I don't know. Microsoft could possibly win it because thinking about it, the US government has worked with foreign governments like Switzerland so it would be more difficult for the wealthier citizens of the US to hide their money offshores because the thinking is, if the money isn't physically in this country it's subject to the country in which it resides offshore. That means the US government can't actually touch it and you don't see the IRS sending out search warrants to those particular citizens demanding they bring their money back to the US for proper taxation. If the IRS wanted that to happen, there would be a coordinated lengthy effort with the foreign government to get financial statements on that citizen and usually that doesn't always happen because privacy laws....

So in this case, the DOJ doesn't have merit in saying that the data on a server in Ireland is US property because that's essentially what they're implying. This case involves an international drug cartel investigation, not a simple US cartel. They would need to follow proper procedure even though it maybe tedious to do so because that data is not in the US, that server is not in the US and therefore is not under US law.

It's similar I find to when people from the US travel overseas to countries and break their laws. Just because they're a US citizen DOES NOT mean they aren't subjected to local laws. If a US citizen breaks the law in Iran, the locality's law applies to that person regardless of what nationality they are because if it did, that's how chaos ensues.

 

MS could and should win. Thats not defending MS its just if they don't then that possibly opens up a whole can of worms in many other areas of trade, tech and industry.

If the data were held in an embassy for example, what then. The embassy is sovereign territory of the nation and comes with legal and binding international agreements. Just because it is in a foreign country does not necessarily mean its subject to the laws in that country, in the case of an embassy and other things like warships, military bases and such.

The USA and other countries expect that someone who committed a crime in the USA and fled the country, would be extradited back to the USA to face charges, however the USA is very reluctant to reciprocate on this arrangement.

 

If you guys read the article, you'd see there is growing support for Microsoft from other companies....

so I'm not so sure it's going to be a cut and dry win for the Justice Department. But, we'll see...

 

Im not surprised at growing support for MS, all these other companies are thinking "There but for the grace of god go i". They all know the impact this will have on them if they have companies overseas or store stuff overseas.

 

The support from other companies does not matter. MS is a US company, They own the server in question, MS will lose. That being said, depending on how much money MS wants to spend, this could end up in the hands of The Supreme Court. Taking it that far will cost MS a fortune, win or lose. But I do not believe that they (The Supreme Ct) would even consider hearing this case.

 

I don't hold your "this is a cut and dry done deal" attitude. For me, we'll see what we see when it's said and done. The justice department simply can't go around bullying companies in the guise of "justice". It's not that simple, and I expect even more corporations and countries come to MS' aid.

In the grand scheme of things I'm quite sure no one wants to knowingly harbor illegal activities, but there needs to be checks and balances to insure even the police force isn't trampling on people's rights in the guise of justice. Yeah I know they cite the drug case, but there may be others that aren't so cut and dry.

Peace

 

How many politicians will want to forgo "re-election funding" from the US IT sector (Apple, Google, MS, etc.)?

If MS loses, I would expect to see a lot of lobbying for legislation changes and increased "re-election funding" for politicians who oppose the current situation.

 

Seems Apple is also being taken to task over this as well...

Source: Apple and Other Tech Companies Tangle With U.S. Over Data Access

 

Europe Data-Transfer Agreement With U.S. | TechCrunch

 

Interesting - sounds like it could be quite a big deal. This story is on the broadcast news a lot here today also.

 

Disclaimer: I’m aware that this type of subject is difficult to discuss while trying to avoid a political viewpoint. I will attempt to do so to comply with the forum rules. I’m simply attempting to convey the facts about this subject as I see them, however, I am not a lawyer, but I can decipher agreements. I always question those in authority and any law using our constitution as a gauge. If the administration feels this is not appropriate, by all means delete this post.

@keseyken. Thanks much for posting a link to an article to start this very important subject.

MS gets a *Thumbs for defying our Justice Department's request. I think our Justice Department is forgetting that this is my/our data that I/we lay down with a keyboard or other means, whether privately or publically transmitted and/or stored. I/we give the tech companies the right to transmit and/or store this data, whether the service is free or purchased. IF THEY FEEL THE NEED FOR SUCH DATA, THEN THEY NEED TO GET A JUDGE TO SIGN AN ORDER OR WARRANT WITH DUE CAUSE FOR SUCH A REQUEST ADDRESSED AND SERVED TO ME/US TO RETRIEVE SUCH DATA, NOT ANY TECH COMPANY. THE TECH COMPANIES DO NOT OWN OUR DATA, UNLESS IT’S IN THEIR AGREEMENT OF WHICH I/WE AGREE TO OTHERWISE as seen below. THEY SIMPLY TRANSMIT AND/OR STORE IT. I CAN'T STRESS THAT ENOUGH.

Thanks for posting that article's link, keseyken. This rejuvenated a thread that I overlooked and I've been neglecting the news thread these past weeks.

The European Court of Justice also gets a *Thumbs for their latest ruling IMO. Hit us where it hurts > In American companies’ wallets. Perhaps all Americans will wake up to the facts after there’s no more free cloud storage service. At least for the commoners. I'm glad the EU court finally realized that their (European) citizens' data is at risk due to the NSA. I belong to NSmA > National Security my Arse! It's plain and simply violating our/your privacy via an unconstitutional act called The Patriot Act. It's not at all "patriotic" to do such spying. Our founding fathers laid it all out in our Constitution. It follows no due process of law whatsoever! It’s an invasion of privacy > PERIOD!

A quote from an article in today’s “The Wall Street Journal”. Source: EU Court Says Data-Transfer Pact With U.S. Violates Privacy - WSJ

Well, I should think Penny needs to contact the NSA, yes? *Think

A few lines from Designer Media Ltd (this forum site) “Terms of Agreement” as seen here: Windows 10 Forums - Terms

That means any data I transmit and upload to this site is owned by Designer Media Ltd as per agreement with my use of the site as I'm well aware of…..

…..and is “governed by English and Welsh law”, not U.S. law.

When it comes to MS agreement: Microsoft Services Agreement

This simply means I/we own it, however, (this is where it gets a little complicated) if you read on…..

The way I read it is that I/we give MS the license to use our data within the privacy agreement for the purpose of improving the service, not the right to take ownership our data.

Unless otherwise agreed to, data is not owned any more than the words transmitted by anyone via a telephone conversation is owned by a telephone company, however, one must read the agreement.

 

. . . the moving trucks are starting their engines. . .*Smile

 

Are you moving, Lee? I read that Europe will be very secure, but then again one never knows for sure. *Wink

 

Very interesting.

European court online data ruling welcomed - RT News