Windows 10: Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs

Hi there.

I've just abandoned what used to be great Linux Distro : Linux Mint. The latest (Linux Mint 17.1) as the newest flavour has ZERO customisable options, No software selectable options on the install -- and there's no Live CD either.

This might not mean much to Windows users but the current Linux Mint offers no user selectable desktop (KDE / GNOME etc) at install time -- and you get a huge jumble of software YOU DON'T ALWAYS WANT. Linux was Never intended to be a "Better Windows than Windows".

Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.

For once Ms is doing MUCH better than the various Linuxes around who are going BONKERS in trying to simplify the stuff so it's virtually USELESS if you don't want a system full of bloat.

So having abandoned LINUX MINT and CENTOS - I've gone back to OPENSUSE again -- at least you get reasonable install selections.

PLEASE OS developers Don't Dumb everything down -- some user selection is always worth while --by all means have "an Idiot's install" but also allow other users a more selective approach.

I always like the idea too of Windows at install time just installing the base package to run your computer --then you can add whatever you want / need later. I dread the day Windows starts becoming "completely configured" !!!!

@Linux mint 17.1 users -- just tell me how I can get the KDE desktop without all the other rubbish. On 17.0 there was a KDE Live CD. OK this is a Windows Forum but the point I think is valid -- simplification is OK up to a point BUT DON'T OVER SIMPLIFY.

Cheers
jimbo

:)

 

MS arrogant or dumb?

My sister forgot her live id. She's no geek and it happens all the time.

I backed up her photos but could not back up her contacts on her lumia 8.1 phone. There are apps but you need to sign in with the live id of course...

MS have a recovery process but her regiistered email address must have a typo as it never came. So we tried the alternative recovery. Webform asks all sorts of questions about the live id usage - emails sent, previous passwords, xbox credit card etc, assuming
that all phone users use their live id email to run their entire lives. Obviously.

But like so many real people, she never does. And why should she? MS forces you to use a live account on the phone but that doesn't mean you should drop you old email address of 10+ years.

Is MS just dumb or arrogant? They suggest recovery from a lost password is by resetting the phone, which wipes all data. If you back it up to their cloud you're fine of course - but you need that password. I think it was Windows 95 or maybe 3.1 where they
had a recovery process that needed a reboot that prevented the recovery process completing and you had to start again, then it rebooted again. Ad infinitum. It appears MS have not really learned much since then. 640k....

So, I understand MS will not allow live id to be changed without a full wipe and reset, so is there a way to export the contacts without an inaccesible app and preferably not one by one? She has over 100. Is MS determined to keep us in the 1990s?

thanks for any help

ps If anyone is thinking about preaching, please don't. It's too easy to type, but everybody knows it already and it's just arrogant. Sometimes things go wrong.

 

MS arrogant or dumb?

Not really sure what you mean. I certainly was not being sarcastic,nor did I think or infer you were trying to hide anything behind your sister.

Oh, well, I've provided the best recommendation for this issue to you in good faith...Take it or leave it....it is certainly your and your sister's call.

 

Thanks for the info, Jim. It's good means so far as educating. *Smile

So, another dent for Linux? Just what they need.

So far as this happening to Windows > It'll never happen. That would be lunacy.

 

It's been a pet peeve of mine as well... Only way to get rid of the 'bloat' that I'm aware of is to homebrew your own ISO.

LiveCDCustomization - Community Help Wiki

Seems KDE has been shunned by Mint - don't see any testing ISO's yet...

Iso images - Linux Mint Community

 

This is one of the reasons I prefer CentOS as my Linux distro:

 

If you think that a Food and Drink app is a part of a base OS I suppose *Smile I'm starting to play with Arch which is pretty un-bloated - haven't chosen a GUI to install yet...

 

You must be referring to Linux Mint (KDE version).

Fedora & OpenSUSE have always had the best OS installers (compared to LM, Ubuntu or Windows).

Linux Mint 17.1 MATE uses the identical installer to Linux Mint 17 MATE.
It also runs as a Live CD/DVD/ISO.

You must be referring to Windows Server.

The Windows Desktop installer installs what MS thinks it should install.
There are no software install options in Windows.

Every Linux Distro I've tried (even Linux Mint 17.1 MATE) gives you the option to move various folders to other locations.
That's something that MS' professional cadre of highly paid coders haven't been able to achieve for the last 15 years.

Even with all of the "bloat" installed, Linux Mint 17.1 MATE:

• Uses ~50% of the HDD space that an "empty" Windows Desktop install uses.
• Takes the same amount of time that an "empty" Windows Desktop install takes.

It took ~20 minutes to install the OS (including the "bloat") plus another ~10 minutes to download & install the updates.



Note:
The disk usage increased by 300 MB after the updates.
After you have installed Windows, you then have to spend extra time installing Windows Updates, MS Office, VLC & Adobe CC which probably takes at least 1 hour.

Windows also caches the extra Windows Features so you can install them later.
So if you don't use them (or know about them) they just "sit around" clogging up the OS partition.

My W10TP VM is using ~3.5x as much space as Linux Mint 17.1 MATE VM (18 GB vs 5 GB).

Windows Desktop is already completely configured by MS.

You have to customise it after the install has finished (the W8 series and W10 offer some options during the final setup step).

You can install KDE using Synaptic.



You can then use Synaptic to uninstall any of the other stuff you don't want.

The other versions Of Linux Mint have always been released some time after MATE and Cinnamon.

Looking at the list (last time) it took a month before KDE and Xfce versions were released.

 

LOL.. yes waiitng for apps to install (especially if one will never use them) is a PITA.

Yup, was just thinking there may be a test ISO by now, considering the last time a test build was on June 30th, about a week after MATE went RTM. Perhaps we'll see them this week.

One can run apt-get scripts after install to add/remove packages, but it would be better to have a choice within the installer.

Overall, I agree with your sentiments though. *Smile

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!. . .is this a Windows 10 site or is it a New Linux site. . .just wondering. . .*Smile

 

*Roflmao2

 

I think they're ok, Lee, but actually they should be in the Chillout Room since it's not a part of 10.

 

Hi there

Windows DOES scan the hardware and installs any drivers it can based on hardware probing plus the base applications (usually a file manager, an Internet browser and a few accessories like notepad) AND NOTHING ELSE --which is how I like it.

I agree if you buy a computer with Windows pre-installed from a store it's invariably full of Bloat but from a base windows (retail) system you get the base windows -- and I for one hope it stays that way.

@Kari -- CENTOS is fine - that was a typo it was another distro I should have mentioned. Centos works just fine.

@The rest -- I was merely pointing out what seems to be a trend in the Linux world these days and my point was to say I hope Windows doesn't go down the same route. I've no intention of using this Forum for solving major Linux issues !!! There's plenty of those Forums around for that purpose.

As an engineer we always believed in getting the BASE project working first often from a simple P.O.C (Proof of Concept) and then adding on the other bits as needed and in a timely fashion --these days (probably why a lot of Huge I.T projects fail) is that they try and do the whole mega thing in one go and then spend a whole load of time REMOVING bits of it until they either abandon the project or (rarely in the case of Govt stuff) actually get it working.

Cheers
jimbo

 

@jimbo45
You phrased your initial post strangely then.

Ubuntu and Linux Mint are "feature complete".
They are for Linux newbies (or those who don't want to tinker)

They come with everything an average user supposedly needs:

• A couple of media players (and wretched codecs)
• Office programs
• Browser
• Email
• GIMP
• etc.

Other Linux Distros are much better suited to customising/tinkering (especially during install).

You also mentioned "bloat", which I couldn't accept as my W10 TP VM (with a much less than 1 GB of programs) uses 18 GB of HDD space, whereas the "feature complete" Linux Mint 17.1 VM only uses 5 GB of HDD space.

I guess that you actually meant a lot of programs you found unnecessary/unneeded. *Smile

 

Dude, wipe that grin off your face....