Windows 10: Retail license W10 upgrade permanent?

Delicieuxz · Jul 11, 2015

alphanumeric;276905 said:

You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way." < It clearly says you may not continue to use it>
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I think there's a confusion about what is being discussed.

The license is not the software. A person's license to use a version of Windows is not an ownership of Windows, but it is ownership of that license. If a person cannot continue to use a version of Windows, after updating or upgrading to a new version, that does not mean that their license has changed in its type of being a single-machine transferable license. It only means the Windows version which the license is for has changed. The type of license (retail, single-machine, transferable) has not changed.

What is being clearly said that may not continue to be used, is not the license, in lieu of a new one, but the old Windows software, with the license being updated as for a newer version. That does not speak to the conditions under which the new software may be used (single-machine, transferable). In that EULA, only the old software is not longer for use and transfer. The new software is accepted as holding the same type of license as the previous software did.

Also, this EULA example is referring to an update from Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1. In this case, a user is still using Windows 8, but just its updated version.
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alphanumeric · Jul 11, 2015

Delicieuxz;276917 said:

I think there's a confusion about what is being discussed.

The license is not the software. A person's license to use a version of Windows is not an ownership of Windows, but it is ownership of that license. If a person cannot continue to use a version of Windows, after updating or upgrading to a new version, that does not mean that their license has changed in its type of being a single-machine transferable license. It only means the Windows version which the license is for has changed. The type of license (retail, single-machine, transferable) has not changed.

What is being clearly said that may not continue to be used, is not the license, in lieu of a new one, but the old Windows software, with the license being updated as for a newer version. That does not speak to the conditions under which the new software may be used (single-machine, transferable).

Also, this EULA example is referring to an update from Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1. In this case, a user is still using Windows 8, but just its updated version.
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Ok I see what your saying, Retail should get you retail, OEM gets OEM. The thing is it says replaces, "The new license replaces the previous one". The new one could easily be OEM. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was. The free upgrade is for the life of the device, when that device dies, that windows 10 license dies with it. There are conditions on this free upgrade offer above and beyond your normal Windows upgrade install.

The upgrade install could be from windows 7 or windows 8. Doesn't have to be from Windows 8.
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alphanumeric · Jul 11, 2015

I agree that you'll be able to go back to the previous OS but I don't see any scenario where you can use the old and new one on the same machine or two different machines.
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I think the Windows 10 upgrade install will get its own product code in the upgrade process. That will be the one you use for clean installs. I think it will also be locked to that PC/hardware like an OEM install is. What happens as far as the old OS I don't know. I'm thinking you could dual boot on the original PC. They aren't going to want you moving it to another PC though. It's give and take, you get a free upgrade but your going to have to give something up? Is that not fair? I think so. For those that don't think its fair, don't do the free upgrade. This is just my guess, take it for what its worth.

Delicieuxz · Jul 11, 2015

alphanumeric;276919 said:

Ok I see what your saying, Retail should get you retail, OEM gets OEM. The thing is it says replaces, "The new license replaces the previous one". The new one could easily be OEM. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was. The free upgrade is for the life of the device, when that device dies, that windows 10 license dies with it. There are conditions on this free upgrade offer above and beyond your normal Windows upgrade install.

The upgrade install could be from windows 7 or windows 8. Doesn't have to be from Windows 8.
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There are two items in the discussion: The license, and the software which the license is for. The two items run in parallel to each other, but they run on their own tracks, and they are not homogenized. In legalese, I believe they are distinct. If one of them is modified, that doesn't mean that the other is modified.

The Windows 7 -> 8 update example is not said to be replace the license, but the version of Windows to which it points: "the update replaces the original software that you are updating". After updating that license, the only thing that has changed through the update agreement which the user entered in to, is that their license now points to Windows 8.1. It still retains all its same functionality, its same license-type.

I believe that the wording of Microsoft's "upgrade offer" legally restricts the offer to replacing a Windows version for a particular license, retaining the same license key and license-type. A retail -> OEM change would be a license downgrade, and would touch upon things not hinted to in the Microsoft offer.

I think that it would be a case of false and misleading advertising to do, because:

1) it would not be an upgrade of an existing license if it is replaced with a limited version - it would be an exchange

2) the upgrade would then not be free - it would cost a retail license to receive an OEM license, with a clear transfer of equity departing away from the retail license holder

3) it would be a downgrade of a license-holder's license-type

It is legal convention, and I believe also written law, that the conditions of an agreement must be clear and the wording logical, and conditions which are found unreasonable or deceptive are not upheld in the court's view. I think that it is unreasonable to believe and expect that a retail license would become less than a retail license, and I think that Microsoft's presentation of the upgrade offer does not allow for legal basis to negatively impact the license-type of a person.

I think that the upgrade offer will utilize the same key as was for Windows 8 / 7, for Windows 10.
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alphanumeric · Jul 11, 2015

Delicieuxz;276933 said:

There are two items in the discussion: The license, and the software which the license is for. The two items run in parallel to each other, but they run on their own tracks, and they are not homogenized. In legalese, I believe they are distinct. If one of them is modified, that doesn't mean that the other is modified.

The Windows 8 -> 8.1 update example is not said to be replace the license, but the version of Windows to which it points: "the update replaces the original software that you are updating". After updating that license, the only thing that has changed though the update agreement which the user entered in to, is that their license now points to Windows 8.1. It still retains all its same functionality, its same license-type.

I believe that the wording of Microsoft's "upgrade offer" legally restricts the offer to replacing a Windows version for a particular license, retaining the same license key and license-type. A retail -> OEM change would be a license downgrade, and would touch upon things not hinted to in the Microsoft offer.

I think that it would be a case of false and misleading advertising to do, because:

1) it would not be an upgrade of an existing license if it is replaced with a limited version - it would be an exchange

2) the upgrade would then not be free - it would cost a retail license to receive an OEM license, with a clear transfer of equity departing away from the retail license holder

3) it would be a downgrade of a license-holder's license-type

It is legal convention, and I believe also written law, that the conditions of an agreement must be clear and logical, and conditions which are found unreasonable or deceptive are not upheld in the court's view. I think that it is unreasonable to believe and expect that a retail license would become less than a retail license, and I think that Microsoft's presentation of the upgrade offer does not allow for legal basis to negatively impact the license-type of a person.

I think that the upgrade offer will utilize the same key as was for Windows 8 / 7, for Windows 10.
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I will say this one more time. It clearly states in the EULA I linked to that "The new license replaces the previous one". It clearly states that. You can spout all the legal ease you want but your not going to change my interpretation of what it says. You have your interpretation and I have mine.
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alphanumeric · Jul 11, 2015

I did an upgrade from Windows 7 to the Insider preview and got a new key. Windows 10 is not using the Windows 7 key. And its not the key listed by Microsoft for installing the preview. I think Windows 10 will get its own key. And that will be the key you use to do clean installs with.

Delicieuxz · Jul 11, 2015

The shift you made from Windows 7 to Windows 10 Insider Preview did not involve an upgrade or alteration of your Windows 7 license, which remains untouched while using the Insider Preview. And the key posted publicly by Microsoft for installing the Windows 10 Insider Preview is not influencing on people's existing Windows licenses.

It seems that the EULA which you previously linked-to has now been removed from Microsoft's website.

alphanumeric · Jul 11, 2015

The shift you made from Windows 7 to Windows 10 Insider Preview did not involve an upgrade or alteration of your Windows 7 license, which remains untouched while using the Insider Preview. And the key posted publicly by Microsoft for installing the Windows 10 Insider Preview is not influencing on people's existing Windows licenses.

It seems that the EULA which you previously linked-to has now been removed from Microsoft's website.
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My install is not using the publically posted key, it has its own key.

Try the link here for Windows 8.1, http://www.eightforums.com/general-s...ws-8-eula.html

groze · Apr 4, 2018

My install is not using the publicly posted key, it has its own key.
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*Ditto It also shows as a retail key.

I did my install of windows 10 differently because the reverse wouldn't work, have no idea why.

Here is my setup.
Partition 1 Primary Windows 7 Home retail changed my windows key to be legal.
Partition 2 Primary Windows 10 Home preview upgraded from my Windows 7 oem. The key is different from all other keys.
Partition 5 logical Xubuntu
Partition 6 logical Linux swap.

By doing what I did, I haven't violated the EULA or the upgrade requirement. If I give up windows 10 at anytime even after the 30 days using an image back. I can go back to this setup and it would also be legal.

Partition 1 Primary Windows 7 OEM or keep using my Windows 7 retail key.
Partition 5 logical Xubuntu
Partition 6 logical Linux swap.

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