Windows 10: Why do we put up with such bad service

jimbo. I couldn't agree more. I come from a an ICL/Fujitsu VME mainframe, then Windows WAN background and we had people dedicated to ensuring that the latest operating system upgrades and latest vendor software offerings and the current, home-grown application software all worked . And, of course, for that we had a testing environment before thrusting the new version(s) on what have been unsuspecting 'users'. But average joe users - who, for example, may be one-man businesses or university students using a laptop, or Mr and Mrs retired couple who want to Skype their Australian relatives - do not have the benefit of a fully trained internal IT support team. They, including me, expect rigorous testing by our MS friends. In truth, the MS problem of today is I believe entirely the fault of the 1980's IT generation who couldn't get beta and other 'nearly right' versions of MS Windows fast enough - warts and all. Within my own UK government we had managers who couldn't get their hands on a PC fast enough and who were keen to be one-step-ahead of their colleagues in the latest MS Windows and application tool race. Result: Hey said MS, we have a ready and willing global testing resource - we have high user demand, let's respond quickly, do some minimal testing amongst ourselves and get versions out for 'user testing'; the scale of testing that we could never afford to buy in and its being offered for free. John

 

And as a general rule of precaution: Never ever upgrade. A clean install is the only way to go. I had to learn this (again) with Windows 10. From XP to Vista and from Vista to 8 I did clean installs. With 10 I though I could try the upgrade process but the problems are still the same, lot's of strange issues that are almost not fixable. I did a clean install and now Windows 10 has been running almost flawlessly for several weeks. There is a lot you can do by yourself to avoid trouble. And like others have already mentioned: Windows is a very complicated piece of software that runs on billions of computers, this combination is bound to cause a problem here and there.

 

Well, not exactly, my system: W7.1 > W8 > 8.1 > W10, TP and insider versions since day one. Even changed a lot of HW in mean time.

 

JohnGroom, its not just Microsoft that is the issue or blamed issue. Applications software are sometimes the cause of headaches. I too worked in VTAM/CICS IBM mainframe environment and LAN/WAN's. I was once Novell Netware certified and implementing new Novell server versions was worse than a new Microsoft OS. IBM's OS2 wasn't a "walk in the park" to implement.

Apple just (yesterday) released IOS 10. The first thing it did was "brick" a lot of units.

 

Just a thought.. but the clean install is better than an upgrade used to be a good rule of thumb but not now. With CU's coming down frequently it would be complicated to clean install the OS with each update, update the ISO with the KB for the CU and reinstalling the software that's used each time.

 

I, too, come from that background - nearly 40 years of IBM mainframe systems programming / administration prior to retiring 7 years ago. So a lot of my attitudes seem a bit, umm, quaint to modern PC crowd. I expect software to be well tested by the vendor ... including extensive beta testing by both experienced and naive users. And I recognize that the user community is always going to be the gamma test team because the vendor is always going to miss something.

But one of my "quaint" ideas is that an upgrade isn't forced on a customer. Customers that don't have those dedicated IT teams need to be able to wait until software is reasonably stable.

Microsoft clearly recognizes the difference between home customers and professional customers. Those customers likely to have IT staff get the "Enterprise" version of Windows - a fairly clean, stripped down version. Those customers without the IT staff get a "Professional" version full of glitzy (and sometimes buggy) bloatware (that MS calls "Apps") that might be able to be throttled down by settings or gpedit.

Seems to me that the MS re-definition of "professional" explains some of the problems expressed in this thread.

 

Along with my VTAM/CICS, the Federal Agency I worked for used IBM Token Ring LAN. I guess that is a dinosaur now.

 

Fully agree with you, also this is the best forum out and I find all members on here very friendly and helpful

 

Anyone who knows of VTAM, CICS, and/or token ring is, by definition, a dinosaur (says the person supporting VTAM for 30 years). Add APPC and APPN to get really esoteric. But I'm afraid this is way off topic. *Smile

 

Microsoft maintains two different versions of Windows 10 Enterprise for Enterprise customers. One is just the enterprise version, the other is the LTSB version (or Long Term Servicing Branch). LTSB doesn't get forced updates (though it does get security patches).

So Microsoft has already addressed the issue you seem to be complaining about.

Microsoft also has a set of tools called AppLocker for enterprise customers to control Apps. Again, they have already provided a solution to the problem you are complaining about.

Have you thought about learning about the things you find to be issues? You might find that a solution already exists.

 

Actually, I thought I was mentioning those things. The problem is that those professional-grade options are not available on their so-called Professional versions of Window 10 - only on the Enterprise versions. I actually looked to see if private home user could buy and Enterprise license. I don't now remember the difficulties, but it didn't seem practical. (Maybe it was too costly. I really don't remember.)

 

I have an issue with "Pro" versions and it's naming. I feel that professional use like in using for business should be dropped and real businesses should use Enterprise. Most small businesses could use Home just fine as they are mostly using it on single machines.

 

It is just branding - don't worry about it. I got a new toothbrush yesterday as it was 70% off in Carrefour. Oral-B Professional. You can probably get "Pro" versions of razor blades and desktop fans for all I know.

I use 10 Pro because it has bitlocker and Hyper-V both of which I use and I don't care about the name. Actually I'm using Server 2016 TP5 at the moment but my license is for Pro so I guess that almost counts.

You might be interested though that since the 14926 preview, apps you uninstall are not re-installed on upgrade which is a big step forward. It is offset slightly by inclusion of new pointless apps like Pandora and Farmville2 but at least when you remove them they don't come back on upgrade *Smile

Insider Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 14926 for PC and Mobile - Page 4 - Windows 10 Forums

One doesn't have these issues with apps if your PCs (Enterprise or Pro) were managed by your organization though anyway.

 

Home versions of Windows are designed for Home users so assume little technical knowledge on the part of the user.

The pro versions are designed for use by small and medium sized businesses, (SME), so include controls that need as modicum of knowledge to operate. They may also be joined to a Domain, ( and I've never seen any reference to Farmville*Wink )

The enterprise version is designed solely for use in major corporations, Governments, Etc these are not available in small quantities and normally require activation by specialist key servers, they include various features that are useful to management by IT departments across multiple Site's & servers Etc.

There is also now the new Education version which appears to be a mix of Enterprise and Pro versions.

We see a lot of complains on these forums about not being able to customise their Home version, this is not a fault but by design

 

Pro seems more of a gimmick to suck up more money, Home and pro should just be merged. I also hear from many people that use Pro in home environment on one machine and think that they are getting much more than with Home. Willing to pay much more for something they'll never use.