Windows 10: Bootup Takes Two Tries

Twiddling my thumbs while HP downloads the utility. It isn't that big (2 GB) - HP must be really slow today.

http://www.patriotmemory.com/product...d=8301&type=17

I didn't see any firmware updates, but you should verify that I looked at the correct device and double check what I looked for - my eyes aren't that good anymore *Cool

Bill
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Ok ... that was a worthwhile exercise. The 3-in-1 diagnostic utility creates a bootable HP_TOOLS. This is exactly what I was looking for - hopefully it will work as well on your machine.

HP PC Hardware Diagnostics

Scroll down to : HP PC Hardware Diagnostics 3-in-1 USB Key

A few notes:

Don't sweat the Authorized service partners / IT professionals verbiage. This isn't something everyone needs, but you can certainly use it.

If you have any questions, ask ... the utility is pretty much the same thing as the built in pre-boot diags menu. I might have to refresh my memory, but at least it isn't completely alien to me.

1) It's a 2 GB download - took over an hour for me to get it.

2) The install first extracts the softpaq to a new folder, so you need at least 4 GB free space on a drive (download + extract)

3) Setup is in a command prompt and isn't very smart.
You have to tell it the drive letter of the USB. It doesn't offer any - so be sure you know the letter of the thumb drive.

4) It wasn't clear if it wanted the letter only or the letter and the colon. I'm not sure if it matters, but I entered the letter without the colon (it might figure it out if you include the colon, I just don't know)

!! WARNING !!
The drive letter you enter will be formatted!
Triple check before hitting enter.
5) Setup takes a while - 20-30 minutes.
If successful, you have to hit the any key to finish.

6) Read the documentation to become familiar with the utility
Here's a copy from the thumb drive I created.
HP PC Diagnostics USB Key User Guide - Rev 4 (Oct 2014 Release) - English.docx

7) When setup is done, you can boot from the thumb drive
Restart your machine
tap ESC
select f2 - run diags

The CSO and Agent numbers are just identification you make up.
I used the name of my computer for the CSO and Agent99 for the agent number
You can update the BIOS with this utility
... now all I have to do is figure out where it wants the data to do the update.

On my system with a HP_TOOLS partition already setup, the folder tree looks like this:

Hewlett-Packard\BIOS
Current
New
Previous
I expect the thumb drive will be the same and that the BIOS update would go in the New folder.

I'll get back on that. Let me know if you were able to bring up the diags using the 3-in-1 utility thumb drive.

After that, it's going to be a breeze. I should mention that this will bring your system up-to-date, and I think this will help ... but I'm uncertain if this will correct the issue. It seems like a BIOS update is the only thing that might - everything else looks in order.

Bill
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At one time there was an HP Tools on the original laptop drive, but it seems that HP got booted out of the way with the installation of the SSD drive.

F1 - System Information
F2 - Start-up Test (Memory Test [passed] and Primary Hard Disk Test [Passed] SMART Test [Passed])
F3 - Run-in Test (Just another Start-up Test)
F4 - Hard Disk Test (Just another HDD test)

F11 - Error Log

ESC - Exit *Smile

I don't see the sense in all these tests, since they all seem to run the exact same test.

I searched for HP Tools and was taken to HP's site (for corporate and channel partners).

I guess I'm just used to building my own rigs and having complete control of how my BIOS are set up. Since the laptop seems to have been set up with BIOS, I'm wondering if it's even capable of UEFI. Which wouldn't bother me all that much except that if it is capable of UEFI, HP seems to have hidden it well.

 

I have a whole passel of them, including a brand new 8 GB PNY one that looks like the old time pencil/ink eraser (pink on the pencil end, white on the ink end). Impulse buy, of course.

Yeppers! Got this HP 500-056 with 8 Gigs RAM and 1 TB HDD. I've been switching back and forth so much that at times I've tried to get laptop info from this one. *Redface

Yes, I have both on this machine, but I'll check to see if there's a newer version at the official site.

So far, it seems that I don't have either on the laptop. Should I look in the desktop's BIOS to see if I have anything there?

 

The two files are two versions of HP BIOS for you to download - sorry for any confusion.

F.43 is what is on the dv7 now - download just in case

F.49 is the most current - download so you can update the firmware (BIOS)

HP ran me around as it always does when looking for a straight answer. I compared the F.49 firmware for your machine with the most current version for my machine and the contents of the softpaqs are different enough. My update has bin, sig, and fd files plus the insyde flash (winflash). Your softpaq had fd file, fd checker app and the insyde flash (winflash).

What that tells me is that my machine has the hybrid firmware and your has the legacy firmware. That isn't a problem for the utility I posted earlier. It just makes figuring out what files and where they belong that much more difficult. I can't flash my machine with your machine's firmware to test.

Ok, I caught up on reading your posts. The HP PC Hardware diagnostics 3-in-1 key essentially replaces HP_TOOLS - it's a handy thing to have.
Go ahead and build one (see post#45) and I'll continue trying to sort out what to do with the BIOS softpaq files. It's either stick the sp####.exe in the new folder or extract the sp####.exe contents and put that in the new folder.

Another option is to just run the BIOS update and pray that Win10 let's it do the flash.

I would probably just flash the BIOS on my machine using the F.49 SoftPaq , but it's not my machine we're discussing *Wink

That's going to have to be your call.

Bill
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Well, Crapola, Bill!

After all the work you, Saltgrass, TopGun and everyone else put in, I will have to install Windows 7 on the laptop to update the BIOS, which seem to be true legacy with absolutely NO UEFI. Further, Windows 8 is not supported.

That's not a real problem except for the time and effort it will take. Since Windows 10 went onto this laptop with no problems whatsoever, once I reinstall Windows 7 on the old hard drive (ain't gonna mess around with the SSD more than I have to) I'll take it out and put the SSD back in.

That is, unless flashing the BIOS will mess things up for an already installed Windows 10.

Edit:

OK, it looks like flashing the BIOS is independent of an operating system, so I should be OK doing it tomorrow AM. I have downloaded and saved F.43 just in case.

Hopefully, if I need a driver for anything, which I don't expect, it'll come with whatever I want to install.

 

Because Win10 is a preview release, I'm concerned that something might not work.

The HP PC Hardware 3-in-1 key would take Win10 out of the equation bc it's a self booting key. A thought just occurred to me that you might have difficulty even creating the key on Win10 ... if you go that route, you might want to create the key on the other machine.

Another thought occurred to me - to be on the safe side, put the HD (Win8?) back in the laptop and flash with that OS running. That would be safer than depending on Win10 with whatever MS decided to lock down for the preview.

The 3-in-1 key wouldn't be necessary if you flash BIOS with Win8 HDD booted, just download F.49 and launch it.
Wish I thought of that earlier.

Bill
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Actually, Windows 8 isn't supported either. When I checked on drivers (looking for the BIOS), I was told I didn't have Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7 installed.

So I clicked on the link you provided for F.49 and nothing about operating system was noted. I'm pretty sure that if an OS were linked to a BIOS flash, I would have been asked to give my OS.

Another thing is that the tool is UEFI. The laptop is total legacy . . . there is no way to get UEFI BIOS on it that I can see. So I'm wondering if I really want to use it on the laptop. However, it would, without a doubt, be useful for the 500-056 desktop.

As to creating the key, I would definitely have to create it on the desktop, since Lappy is legacy and would probably barf if I tried that. *Smile

 

I was taken round and round and round and never found any updates for the Patriot Blaze 240 GB SSD. Not spending any more time on that. I saw a blurb that said if you don't see firmware update it's not needed.

 

Isn't supported where? HP drivers page?

Yeah, mfgrs stop listing OSes after a year or more, HP even stops listing driver updates on the product page. There are updates on HP (on their ftp servers) but they aren't listed - so you have to find them.

Win7 was pretty good at supplying drivers and Win8 is fully driver aware. The mfgrs provide MS with the driver and then they get certified by WHQL. MS just makes it easier to get the driver since they already have it and certified it. If Widows Update supplies the driver in Win8, that's all you need. It might not be the most current, but that's ok - it's the best that MS has tested with the OS.

Drivers are listed in the optional offerings in WU, so you might have to manually check for them.
BIOS/Firmware is OS independent - the code gets loaded at when the machine starts ... before the OS.
Any OS dependencies exists only with the method of unpacking the download. Firmware is tied to the Mobo, CPU and other hardware. It's what makes hardware available to the OS.
The 3-in-1 key carries it's own boot structure - it's a technicians tool. I do not have UEFI set up on this machine (although I've tried a few times) and the key was created with the UEFI schema - pretty cool. Your machine is on that precarious mfgr date line - did HP include support when your machine was manufactured or the next day. That's more research than it's worth. For the most part, you can depend on the HP support page to provide the drivers necessary for the operation of your machine.

If you flash the firmware with Win8 booted, the 3-in-1 key will not be necessary . That was a precautionary step to get Win10 out of the equation which turned out to be more difficult than it's worth in time due to HP's poor documentation.

Same thing I saw, just wanted you to double check since it's your machine.


Since the issue was present on Win8.1, I'd like to keep the HDD in the machine while we trouble shoot the issue. If it's resolved with Win8.1 it should be resolved when you put the SSD back in.

This will give you a real OS to use (no utility not running issues). Once the dbl boot is resolved, you can play with Win10 to your hearts content *Smile

I type too slow and look for supporting information or try to think of resolutions/tests/data needed as I type.

You're probably way a head of me and the firmware is already updated. Maybe the issue has been tested with the updated firmware and you've already marked this thread solved *Wink

Bill
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Nah, not marked as solved by any stretch. Although I'm a reasonably fast typist, I am much slower to jump into the water to see if it's warm enough. Because I don't want to get caught doing something I shouldn't have. *Busted

I clicked on another link to BIOS you supplied and it did mention OS versions, Win 7 being the latest supported.

There's a little computer shop right up the road from me and I will go up there and ask if they have a used 2.5" SATA drive for the laptop. Doesn't have to be all that big because I'll plug it into the laptop and install Windows 7 on it. I have two or three copies I no longer use, so no expense there.

That way I'll be as safe as I can possibly be.

 

Fair enough - your machine ... your decision

Do me one favor? When you reference something, give me the reference. I am helping other members and playing with Win10 on my own machine. Of the 60 or more bookmarks I added for the issue on your thread, I can't respond to I clicked on another link to BIOS you supplied and it did mention OS versions, Win 7 being the latest supported.

If you provide the link, I can look at it to see if it's a real concern or if it's an omission. As I mentioned HP isn't isn't the best when it comes to updating documentation. I followed so many dead links researching the 3-in-1 key that I'm amazed HP stays in the consumer PC business. This is not the only case I ran into HP site research - there's lots of it.
Don't worry about back filling - just a note for future conversations.

Thanks - by the way, did I say you're doing great?
No? Well then ... you're doing great!

Bill
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I think this will be the simplest way to finish this off unless you find from reading the link I provided below that it'll be completely safe to flash the BIOS with 8.1.1 installed.

Here ya go . . .

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/s...860630&sw_lang=

HP isn't the only one!

We'll git 'er done one way or the other.

 

If nothing else works I would want to compare to a Legacy BIOS install to wiped HD.

Is Secure Boot still engaged?

 

Thanks, yeah ... that's HP's way of saying 'we will only support this configuration'
They back pedal even more here: What if I Don't See My Operating System? | HP® Support

There they say
"If you upgrade to another OS, you're on your own for drivers.
See the mfgr's site if you need a driver (graphics driver - see Nvidia or AMD ... BT driver see Broadcom...)."

The only caveat on that page is about BIOS. HP might have legitimate claims for firmware - they might have modified it for their board configuration. The caveat isn't about upgrading, it's about where you get the upgrade (only from HP and I agree with that).

Well your system is far beyond System Recovery (Vista).

I think the flash on Win8 would be fine. There never are guarantees though.

If you feel more comfortable with a Win7 drive, sure that should work too.

The decision always falls back to you, I'm just a guide, you're leading this safari *Wink

You're right, it's not just HP, but they excel at it *Smile

I do like your CanDo attitude. I hope that after all of this the issue is resolved., there isn't much left to try. But try we will!

Bill
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