Windows 10: MS Acct vs Local acct

Roger, I'm quoting from two of your posts; the first one and another one in reply to Kari.

In your original post, you gave what is not exactly, but as close to misinformation as you can get without intent. *Smile What I mean is that some who are not so savvy as you and Kari will take it that you are actually logging onto a Microsoft account without using a password at all. When in fact, farther down into the thread, you state in the second post I've quoted . . .

Which still isn't exactly correct, since Auto Log On requires you to set a password. Ya just can't get into Windows with a Microsoft account without a password. *Sad

In defense of Kari, he was correcting an inadvertent mistake you made, which was "logging onto Windows with a Microsoft account, but without using a password". Yes, all the "gurus" here probably understood what you meant, but those who come here for help may not know that.

So, Kari explained (quite adequately, I might add) how it works and why. It certainly opened my eyes, since I've never attempted to log onto Windows "without using a password". *Smile I have occasionally changed to a local account in order to check this, that or the other out. As referenced in the next paragraph . . .

As an aside, and only as a FYI, when Windows 8.1 was released, a huge percentage of computers lost their ability to sleep. One of the workarounds was to change from a Microsoft account to a local account. It worked for some and for some it did not. The point being, this is one reason one would use a local account, rather than a MS one. We won't go into privacy paranoia; that's a discussion for another day.

So, bottom line is that Kari knows his stuff and is dedicated to helping to educate those whose knowledge isn't as deep as his. His post(s) are not "a little tirade" but in fact have very good information if one chooses to "listen to" read them. We may not always like what he has to say, but I have learned to read thoroughly.

 

Thanks, Mike! I have to wait a bit to reboot, since I'm installing Office 365, but I'll do 'er in a bit.

 

Not moi, Mart. *Smile I just took a leap off a big bridge . . . We'll see if it works for me.

 

Wow, I didn't know that, Edwin, but I think I'll keep my feedback privileges. *Smile

 

*Redface
Noted!
Let's go back to the original post for a minute and then we can put the whole thing to rest.
Post= MS acct vs local account
I dropped the statement "I log in without a password" into the mix because I suddenly realized that my original question was going to bring a deluge of responses that "I use a local account cause I wanna log in without a password!".
I was hoping to avoid a long conversation about passwords..............
The first response leads my question off on a tangent about what I can and can't do with passwords????
Several days of passwords????
and all information that I already had so didn't need to be deluged with more of it............
(I realize I don't talk rite sometimes but I'm old and Republican........... what can I do *Huh*Huh
I Rise to a Point of Order!
Back to my question........ MS vs local????
I need no information about passwords and my statement was simply to "avoid" such a discussion *Biggrin
and besides....... a ton of hay won't winter a cow *chuckle YMMV
Thanks for your efforts *Wink

 

@Wynona, thanks for the nice words. I swear I blushed *Redface.

@Roger, I am supporting you, sharing your opinion about the MS Account. My point was not the least to argue or discredit you.

I like these forums of ours, the PC Help Forum, Vista Forums, Seven Forums, Eight Forums and now the Ten Forums (links to our sister sites at the bottom left of the front page). My only point in posting what I did was about what Wynona said: In my opinion we have some obligations to those who join afters, the new Windows users and those moving from the legacy operating systems. As the MS Account still is relatively new, introduced in Windows 8, I thought that it is important to make it clear that an MS Account always signs in with a password. It's irrelevant if it is entered manually or automatically by the system, it is always there. It can be changed by the user, it can be entered automatically as in "Remember me" feature on various web services, but it can never be removed or disabled.

Although easy to fix but one typical error which could be caused by thinking that when the auto sign in is once set up, you can forget it, and then when you for one or another reason change your email password, suddenly the auto sign in does not work anymore. Not a big issue, easy to fix, but for some newbies it could cause a sleepless night and sore forehead for banging it into the display.

For all future readers of this thread: You want absolutely no password, use local account. You decide to go for an MS Account and set ip up to sign in automatically, follow these short instructions when you want to change your email (MS Account) password:

• Boot to Windows normally, let Windows sign in to your Auto Sign-In acccount
• When signed in to Windows using this account, surf to your email's web interface (Outlook.com if using an MS email, Gmail.com, Yahoo.com or whatever if using a third party email as MS Account)
• Change your email password as instructed for the email service you are using
• Sign out from the email web interface
• Disable Auto Sign-In (WIN+R, type netplwiz and hit Enter, select "Users must enter a username and password to use this computer" and hit Enter)
• Restart Windows, do not just sign out
• Sign in to your Windows MS Account using the new password
• Now you can enable the Auto Sign-In again

 

Oh, I don't in the least think you need edumacated about passwords! Not at all, but as Kari points out, we need to get it right for those who aren't as knowledgeable as y'all. Besides, fat chance you could have possibly avoided that discussion! Didn't happen!

I think MS account vs Local account is one of the most controversial topics that could be brought up. There are others, but this one is hot. Case closed for now . . . that is, until the next poor unfortunate soul brings up the subject. *Smile

Y'know what though? I learned something and I dare to think a few others did too. Also,I now have my computer set up for auto-logon so that I no longer have to enter my credentials. Notice that I avoided saying the magic word: Password!

 

Spot on!
and, I see that you agree with me about a ton of hay wintering a cow.

 

Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say to DavidY . Perhaps I wasn't clear enough *Smile

 

You said exactly this, the last sentence of your post I quoted:

And I still say no, it's exactly the opposite: you can never make a local account as safe as an MS Account. You need to be more careful with a local account which cannot be secured with two step verification.

 

But, when used as a login to Windows on a computer (which is all a local account can do) neither can a Microsoft Account!

With the exception that the very first time you login you need to provide a 2-step code, but the problem is it never seems to ask again for a 2-step code.

In the scenario that an attacker has access to my laptop and knows my password, then assuming I've logged in once, the 2-step verification provides no more security, except that the attacker might have access to more things with a Microsoft Account, such as easy access to email.

Sadly the 2-step verification doesn't seem to protect in this scenario.

You'll note who asked the first question on that tutorial. *Wink

Here's the thing - I'm actually quite a fan of 2-step verification, and if it asked me for a 2-step password when I logged into Windows (at least sometimes, or gave me a checkbox to not remember the device) then there would be an advantage over a local account. Hence my question on that tutorial. But as it is, 2-step verification is a bit pointless as far as logging into a computer is concerned, because it remembers the device, seemingly for ever, and an old-fashioned 1-step password is all you need to login.

Incidentally this page says:

... but I just tried logging back in to the test account I set up in Feb 2014 in Windows 8 when I was working through that tutorial. I haven't logged into that account on that computer for ages (certainly more than 2 months) but it still didn't ask me for an authenticator code.

Fair point - you can see who's logged in - although it's unhelpful that the MS Account suggests you logged into Internet Explorer when all you've done is log into a PC - that log could be clearer.

In general, my suspicion is that MS accounts have more ways to go wrong than a local one. I'm still not convinced that I should change my policy of keeping an admin-level local account on each device for maintenance and recovery purposes.

 

Sure and I said this from the perspective that someone who uses MS Account needs to be more careful by setting up a two-step verification. I didn't mean that local accounts are more secure than MS accounts. It's exactly the opposite as you said. But if someone uses MS account he/she needs to enable the two-step verification or setup a very strong password because an MS account includes all of your MS ...Account. *Smile It's not just an unvalued account like a local is.

 

So today I tried to log into my Windows 8.1 tablet using an MS Account which I'd previously set up.

But it wouldn't let me.

It said it was offline (true enough, but that shouldn't be a show-stopper on a mobile device which only connects via WiFi that might not be there) and that I should enter the last password used to log into my PC. But even entering the correct password for that account (which I'm pretty sure hasn't changed since I set up the account on the tablet) it still wouldn't let me in. The only way I could get in was with my local account. A little later, and after I'd connected to WiFi and logged in and out again on the MS Account, it was happy to connect when offline (using the same password), but this sort of flakiness is not what you want in a user login.

I know it's Windows 8.1 rather than Windows 10, but this just adds to my belief that Microsoft Accounts are more likely to fail and can't be relied on as the sole login method.

 

I don't know how I did it but my MS account password and my Gmail password are different. I think it was in February I changed my password for my Gmail. I still log in to my MS account with the old Gmail password. I wonder if that's why MS won't send my security code to my Gmail address any more. I have to have it sent to my cellphone.

 

The standard rule applies; if you want something to be secure, don't send it over a network.